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Subject: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: dbrewr
May 24th, 2012
1:02 pm
I was scouting the internet looking for a Belgian Wit recipe. Come across one from BierMuncher, maybe you guys know of him. The recipe is simple and from the 257 replies its a winner.
I have every thing ready to brew this one, with one question.
What type of Orange should I use for the zest? The grocery stores around here have California Navel.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: BryansBrew
May 24th, 2012
1:16 pm
I believe most authentic recipes call for a bitter (Seville) orange. not sure if you can find that at your local grocery store. Possibly a hispanic market as naranja ácida, naranja agria, or naranja amarga.

homebrew stores will have the dried bitter peel.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: dnfd737
May 24th, 2012
3:31 pm
caraco is a bitter orange is it not?
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: Dunkelbier
May 24th, 2012
4:31 pm
dbbrewr - I've used CA Navel oranges in my brews and they've turned out great. So, I really, really, don't think it'll make that big of a difference unless you have a very sophisticated palate (I don't). If you want to try something interesting, try using the zest of 2 ruby grapefruit. That flavor profile was unique!
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: mroakley
May 24th, 2012
4:33 pm
"If you want to try something interesting, try using the zest of 2 ruby grapefruit. That flavor profile was unique!"

I'll have to try that. In addition to orange zest, I also like to add some tangerine zest.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 24th, 2012
4:40 pm
dbrewr can you post the recipe, please?
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 24th, 2012
4:43 pm
Is this it:

Recipe: Belgian Wit
Brewer: BierMuncher
Style: Witbier
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (47.0) Awesome taste. Add a slice of orange and people will be asking how you bought a keg of Blue Moon.Distinctive, light wheat beer with a hint of spice. The head is very white and lasts a long time. This is a light, spicy session ale. Perfect for the summer.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.20 gal
Boil Size: 6.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
Estimated Color: 4.4 SRM
belgian_wit_color.jpg
Estimated IBU: 17.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.50 lb Pale Malt Crisp (UK) (3.0 SRM)
4.50 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min)
0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min)
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min)
1 Pkgs Belgian Witbier (White Labs #400)


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 9.00 lb
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 3.50 gal of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F 60 min
Mash Out Add 3.00 gal of water at 196.6 F 168.0 F 10 min
belgian_wit_ratio.jpg
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 24th, 2012
4:49 pm
'people will be asking how you bought a keg of Blue Moon'

... if I brewed this and someone asked me where I got a keg of bluemoon, I'd throw them out! this would be worlds beyond bluemoon...
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 24th, 2012
5:04 pm
Comon Eric, if you actually got someone to try your swill, you'd be so excited you'd invite them to live with you.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 24th, 2012
5:23 pm
true... all I had to do was feed guiness to my wife...
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 24th, 2012
5:46 pm
My wife wouldn't drink a Guinness, if I held her down and tried to pour it down her throat.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: DConn
May 24th, 2012
5:49 pm
Traditionally, bitter orange peel was used for the bitterness (imagine that!) and coriander gave the orange flavor to a wit. In the last few years, it's become common to see sweeter oranges (or other citrus fruit) used instead of bitter orange peel. I'd make the choice based on what you want to end up with.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 24th, 2012
5:51 pm
well concider when I met her she was only drinking bud light... when I told her I only drink craft beer she bought a sixer of red dog... I knew right there I had alot of training to put her through! but now shes more of a a beer snob than me...
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: dbrewr
May 24th, 2012
6:41 pm

This is it

As far as a recipe:
(For 11 gallons)
8# 2-row
9# Flaked Wheat
2# White Wheat Malt

1.25 ounces of Sterlnig Hops at 60 minutes (I just use whatever clean bittering hop I can find since it plays such a minimal role)

6-7 ounces fresh orange zest - 10 minutes
2 ounces of freshly crushed (pulverized) coriander - 10 minutes
1-2 Tbsp of crushed black pepper - 10 minutes
4 chamomile tea bags - 10 minutes

OG - 1.048
IBU - Somewhere around 17-18

I poured the spice mixes into the hop bag with 10-15 minutes left in the boil. Then I tied off that bag and let it sink to the bottom of the kettle as I cooled the wort. I wanted to let those spices (and hops) steep for the extra 15 minutes.

I pitched a simple slurry of Safale-05 from a prior batch when the wort hit 76 degrees. A bit warmer than usual, but the higher temp will add some slight esters I want.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: Dunkelbier
May 24th, 2012
7:03 pm
dbrewr - make sure you at least smell the coriander after you've crushed it. It's amazingly citrusy! I don't know if you need/want the tea bags or black pepper, depends on what you're going for.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: Oly
May 24th, 2012
7:05 pm
Wow, that seems like a lot of spices. Did you really use 2 oz of crushed coriander? Or was that 0.2 oz?
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: mroakley
May 24th, 2012
7:32 pm
Good question.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 24th, 2012
8:12 pm
I'd recommend using orange peel from sweet oranges rather than a bitter ones.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: DConn
May 24th, 2012
8:35 pm
Care to explain why and what your experience with each in a wit has been?
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: Rex_Irae
May 24th, 2012
9:03 pm
I'm wondering if anyone has tried a shot or two of Grand Marnier in the fermenter.
That used to be my go-to on a per glass basis for beers that didn't end well.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 24th, 2012
9:07 pm
I didnt at it to the fermenter but a touch to a glass before I poured... I didnt like it... some alcohols just dont mix with beer... I do have a bottle of mandarine oranage coffee flavoring that I occasionally add to a beer... now thats pretty good!
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: mroakley
May 24th, 2012
9:29 pm
"Care to explain why and what your experience with each in a wit has been? "

I'm definitely curious.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 24th, 2012
9:34 pm
Eric, is that orange flavoring good in wheat beers?
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 24th, 2012
9:48 pm
yep! pretty much anything light, aside from to hoppy and you can even add it to a stout/porter. You dont need a whole lot either... its very strong stuff... but IF I'm adding fruit to my beer I like it very subtle.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 24th, 2012
9:53 pm
I agree, too much, is too much. Do you find it around coffee in the stores.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: redbrew
May 24th, 2012
9:59 pm
You should be able to find it in the grocery store in the coffee aisle. I got a bottle of vanilla that I use to mix with my Pepsi. Never thought of using that syrup in a beer but maybe in a porter or something it would be ok.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 24th, 2012
10:01 pm
We buy all of our coffee at Costco, so that's the one aisle that never go down.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: redbrew
May 24th, 2012
10:32 pm
You could check your other favorite store and see if they have it. You make daily trips to wallyworld anyways.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 24th, 2012
10:33 pm
Weekly.

But yes, I'll definitely check for it there, if I can remember to put it on my list.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 24th, 2012
10:55 pm
you can find it all any grocery store, walmart and even office supply stores... and definately on-line. my advice is stay away from certain brands... some flavors can be really nasty... My favorite is DaVinci. Monin is good too. I think Torani is horrible.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 25th, 2012
12:18 am
Good to know. So this stuff is made for flavoring coffee? I guess that's just not something on my radar.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 25th, 2012
12:43 am
Never was on mine either until I talked to a brewer here in AZ...

https://www.baristaproshop.com/catalog/brand.php?brandid=1&gclid=CP_7666ZmrACFUQ0QgodCy2FZA
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 25th, 2012
12:46 am
You know, that bottle looks familiar, but I've never bought any. Maybe it's in some coffee shops.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 25th, 2012
12:47 am
starbucks has their own brand up on the wall and other coffee shops prob have different brands but I'm pretty sure most of them have it...
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: redbrew
May 25th, 2012
1:27 am
I would pass on buying it at 5bucks unless you dont mind paying $15 dollars for a 2 ounce bottle. And we know just what kind of a big spender you are.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 25th, 2012
1:32 am
Yeah, I've been known to be a little niggardly at times.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 25th, 2012
2:35 am
hold your monkeys! I'm not a big spender... I dont buy that starcraps stuff... very often...
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: dbrewr
May 25th, 2012
10:12 am

Check it out, this is the whole post.



http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/just-another-brew-day-pics-99893/index2.html#post1091569
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: mroakley
May 25th, 2012
3:28 pm
"I'd recommend using orange peel from sweet oranges rather than a bitter ones. "

Couldn't help but notice this has been ignored. Can you please elaborate as to why you recommend the sweet and what your experiences using both the sweet and the bitter have been? I'm brewing up a wit in the coming month for an out of town visitor and may want to change my recipe up. Thanks.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 25th, 2012
3:38 pm
That's interesting, dbrewr. Thanks for posting.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: mroakley
May 25th, 2012
3:40 pm
If you're going to make recommendations and then not offer any insight into why, my suggestion would be to not make any recommendations going forward. Thanks.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 25th, 2012
3:41 pm
From my experience sweet orange peel is superior to bitter and I'd recommend it.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: mroakley
May 25th, 2012
3:43 pm
"From my experience sweet orange peel is superior to bitter and I'd recommend it. "

In what ways? I seriously am making a wit on June 9th for my cousin who is visiting from North Carolina and may want to change up the recipe. Thanks.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 25th, 2012
3:46 pm
Someone asked about the full 2 ounces of coriander. I used .75 ounces and could have gone to 1 ounce, but probably wouldn't go more than that. They don't weigh much, so that's quite a lot.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 25th, 2012
3:48 pm
I'll bite... the only time I've ever come across bitter orange is thru homebrew supplies and it has the pith on it... everyone knows you don't want the bitter pith in there. It lends a flavor I don't prefer. But... I have navel/blood orange trees in my yard and I use the zest of either and much prefer that flavor over bitter... I actually could find a bitter orange tree around town if I wanted and use just the zest and see how that is too...
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: mroakley
May 25th, 2012
3:49 pm
If you're going to make recommendations and then not offer any insight into why, my suggestion would be to not make any recommendations going forward. Thanks.

Thanks Eric for the response.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 25th, 2012
3:49 pm
Orange "peel" by definition has the pith, so pith on you.

I used dried, sweet orange peel with the pith and highly recommend it.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: mroakley
May 25th, 2012
3:57 pm
Because?
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 25th, 2012
4:00 pm
I pith in your beer!
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: mroakley
May 25th, 2012
4:01 pm
I'm actually going to attempt a "session wit" while keeping the spice levels the same as the regular one I brew.

Don't pith in my beer!
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 25th, 2012
4:06 pm
name suggestion: Pith in my Wit
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: mroakley
May 25th, 2012
4:09 pm
What about "Don't Pith in My Wit?"

I find the amounts of coriander people are using interesting. I use .35oz and it's more than enough for me.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 25th, 2012
4:11 pm
Sweet orange peel, with pith, is excellent.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: BryansBrew
May 25th, 2012
4:12 pm
I'm brewing one as well on sunday.

it calls for lemon peel, sweet (huh?). and orange peel, bitter. (among lots of other things!)

Why? I'm trying to clone Sam White and that's what they use.

I think Denny's answer is valid: "Traditionally, bitter orange peel was used for the bitterness (imagine that!) and coriander gave the orange flavor to a wit. In the last few years, it's become common to see sweeter oranges (or other citrus fruit) used instead of bitter orange peel. I'd make the choice based on what you want to end up with. "
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: BryansBrew
May 25th, 2012
4:13 pm
"I use .35oz and it's more than enough for me."

Funny. I'm using 0.33oz as well. (5.5G batch)
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 25th, 2012
4:15 pm
You'll never taste it, but you can always add a lemon to the finished product.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 25th, 2012
4:15 pm
coriander buddies! teeheehee! you guys going to pith on each other too?!
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: BryansBrew
May 25th, 2012
4:17 pm
we'll be taking belgian golden showers.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 25th, 2012
4:18 pm
Bryan and DanR, the Spice Boys.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 25th, 2012
4:32 pm
I'd love to get in on that action! ROFL! New Brewers on the Block!
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 25th, 2012
4:33 pm
I hear it's a Scottish Band and they all wear kilts.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: dbrewr
May 25th, 2012
4:53 pm
I will be brewing this beer tonight, Im going to go 50/50 on the zest. I have fresh naval oranges and dried bitter orange peel from the HBS. Wont use as much as the dry as its more consentrated then fresh says the HBS.
Thanks for all your input. This is the place for good information.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: EricHa
May 25th, 2012
4:58 pm
I've taken the zest of 6 sweet oranges at a time and added them at flameout... lends a great flavor... can't say the same with bitter...
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: kbrad895
May 25th, 2012
5:00 pm
I used 2 oz of Orange Marmalade in a Wit last summer and it turned out very nice, I got alot of complements. Even my neighbors wife drank a couple of glasses and she's a wine drinker who dosn't normally drink beer. I got the real stuff made with seville oranges. Gotta watch the lables, alot of brands have artificial colors and flavors.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: Dunkelbier
May 25th, 2012
7:22 pm
LMAO @ New Brewers on the Block.

FWIW - I use 1oz of coriander in a 5-5.5 gallon batch. I want the citrus to come through so that I DON'T have to add a wedge of lime, lemon, orange, grapefruit, etc.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: redbrew
May 27th, 2012
1:15 am
I have tried a few belgian wits and I just cant get my head around them. Yesterday after reading this thread I stopped and got a Hoegaarden. Took two sips and tossed it out. I know alot of other people like them. Am I missing something?
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: Ohiobrewman
May 27th, 2012
1:20 am
I only really like them if there hopped good ,Red
The only way it's ever been like that is with a friends.

I find the Commercial ones just don't have enough bitterness for me.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: Dunkelbier
May 27th, 2012
1:21 am
red..lol..to answer that, we'd need to know what you like. I don't like sours, but that's just me. the beauty of this hobby is that it has room for all of us. LOL.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: redbrew
May 27th, 2012
1:41 am
I like alot of different styles but I am not caring for the wits and I cant stand hefeweizens. I have tried a couple of sour and funked beers and thats a style I dont care for much either.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: Dunkelbier
May 27th, 2012
3:03 am
Red - see, I like a good Hefeweizen. I haven't brewed one in a couple of years, but they taste really good when the weather is warm. I don't like the funked styles either.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: redbrew
May 27th, 2012
3:10 am
I gotta edit my answer bit. Over here there is a beer called "Edelweiss." Its a wheat beer with some "alpine" spices. It tastes pretty good on a hot day. And since we are only 15 feet from the sun here thats pretty much every day.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: BryansBrew
May 27th, 2012
2:32 pm
it's kinda hard to find a good wit. A lot of brewers put too much coriander or other crap in them. I think long trail or harpoon had one that I called a coriander bomb. disgusting.

Subtle... refreshing.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 27th, 2012
2:35 pm
Bryan, have you posted your recipe before? Do you use a wit yeast or just standard CA ale stuff like US05?
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: BryansBrew
May 27th, 2012
3:15 pm
well, the sam white which I'm cloning uses the east coast ale yeast; but I'm using a wit yeast. WLP410.
I prefer the 4944 (or whatever the wyeast one is), but it was out of stock.

Original plan: (which is what's in Sam White)

0.28 oz Hibiscus (Boil 15.0 mins) Herb 6 -
0.28 oz Rose Hips (Boil 15.0 mins) Herb 7 -
2.00 g Grains of Paradise (Boil 15.0 mins) Spice 9 -
1.00 Items Anise, Star (Boil 15.0 mins) Spice 10 -
0.50 oz Plum, Dried (Boil 15.0 mins) Spice 11 -
0.50 oz Tamarind (Boil 15.0 mins) Spice 12 -
0.50 Items Vanilla Bean (Boil 15.0 mins) Spice 13 -
0.33 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 15.0 mins) Spice 14 -
0.25 oz Lemon Peel, Sweet (Boil 15.0 mins) Spice 15 -
0.25 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 15.0 mins) Spice 16 -


but I have no orange peel, plum, or hibiscus. So I dropped those and added some lemongrass. I guess it's not so much a clone as "inspired by"
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 27th, 2012
3:55 pm
WOW! that's a lot different than any wit recipe I've seen before.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: kbrad895
May 27th, 2012
4:26 pm
I was all set to brew a hefe next weekend, now I'm thinking it's gonna have to be a wit.

I'm way too easily influnced sometimes.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: BryansBrew
May 27th, 2012
4:31 pm
yeah, i've never added that much stuff to a brew. But it's listed right on the sam adams webpage.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 27th, 2012
5:18 pm
I too was about to make an American wheat beer, but now it may become an American wit.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: BryansBrew
May 27th, 2012
7:11 pm
here's the final recipe:

http://kotmf.com/recipes/recipe.php?r=287
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: brewboy_BB
May 27th, 2012
7:17 pm
Lots of herbs and spices. Interested to hear how it turns out.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: BryansBrew
May 27th, 2012
7:28 pm
wort tastes awesome. nothing really stands out which is how I like it. But I'm sure that will change after fermentation.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: MMMBREW
May 29th, 2012
7:56 pm
Tamarind eh? That would scare me to death. I made a thai curry that called for a good amount of tamarind paste... Almost pukeworthy. The beer looks good/interesting besides that. It'd be interesting to try.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: BryansBrew
May 29th, 2012
7:58 pm
it was about 2/3 a teaspoon or so. I doubt I'll be able to pick it out. I used most of the jar in other asian type dishes and never disliked anything. Time shall tell.
Subject: Re: Orange Zest and Belgian Wit
Author: MMMBREW
May 29th, 2012
8:43 pm
I enjoy chamomille in wit quite a bit. I also have used jasmine petals in a saison in the past.... Turned out great. Even scored a 36 in competition. Probably would have done better fresh.

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