I'm going to use a Wyeast yeast (Belgian Wit) for the first time (I've either used dried or White Labs and have made quart starters from them). I was curious if any of you make quart starters with Wyeast brand yeast or just follow the directions on the packet.

Thanks!

I make starters for everything except dried yeast. I primarily use wyeast brand.

Ditto on the starters for everything. 2L minimum.

What Dan said.

Yep, at least a 2 qt. starter for me.

Do you guys usually decant the "beer" off of a cooled starter or pitch the whole thing? I usually pitch the whole 2L starter, but am now fearing I have been diluting my wort too much (although my beer does taste good imo). And if you do decant, what is the minimum time you cool before seeing yeast/beer separation. I usually do my starters 24 hours before pitching.

Anthony

Don't know if 24 hrs is long enough for a starter. Sometimes it takes that long just to get some activity. If you do not decant you want to pitch when the starter is at high krausen. May or may not dilute your beer. Depends on starter and wort SG. When I decant, I put the yeast in the fridge the night before (started 3 days ago). I decant in the morning and let the yeast warm up while brewing. I then draw off a liter 15 minutes into the boil and cool it rapidly in ice. I then add to the yeast and get it going before pitching. This way I am not diluting my beer.

Really depends on the yeast I think. Did a scottish ale with liquid wyeast smack pack(didnt make a starter),24 hrs later,no activity-got nervous-made a dry packet starter,pitched it at high activity,saw slight bubbling in an hour,now 24hrs later bubbling like mad.Also,beginning carboy temps 74,now at 69.should I be shootin for that pitch temp(69) or seems to me like it just took that long for yeast growth. Making a good starter today for a am. ale tommorow.

I decant if the starter is larger than a qt. or olderthan a couple days.

So when you decant denny is there just enough to slosh around to pick up the yeast,or if fresh do you pitch it all? probably sounds like a dumd question.

When I decant, I leave a cup or 2 of the old wort behind to swirl up the slurry. If the starter is fresh and small (not the norm), I pitch it all.

I never make a starter when using Wyeast, and I've never had a problem with it. I get activity within 24 hours.

Thanks for the info. I have not had any problems with my starters with a 24 hour lead time. I do yse a stir plate and usually have CO2 and/or a small krausen. I pitched my first Wyeast 2450 into a Rye IPA. Missed my OG by 4 points though at 1.078.

Anthony

gillbates, I think you forgot the word "yet".....a starter isn't primarily for faster starts...it's for better fermentations and better tasting beer.

How much better tasting beer?

The reason I ask is because I can routinely make better tasting beer than my local brewpub. And this without making a starter.

If you're having good results and you like your beer, don't change just because someone says that you aren't doing it their way. It's your beer and you are the best judge of its taste. It doesn't hurt to listen to alternatives, but everyone has "their" way of doing things and that may or may not the best way for you.

gillbates, you'll never know til you try....that's all I'm saying.

"It's your beer and you are the best judge of its taste.".....I don't believe that's always the case.

He already said that he thinks his beer is better than a local brewpub. If he likes his beer, that's all that matters.

and there once was a guy that made a corona clone and he couldn't quite get it right,

that is until he put his bottles in his backyard for a couple of hours. . . . .

There is no accounting for taste.

Fred

I make starters to increase yeast cell count for a better fermentation, not a faster one.

Doesn't it matter if he could like it more?

I'm with Denny here. Not using a starter will impart some of a "house" flavor to the beer, and as long as you are working with small beers I don't see a problem.

But try it, using a starter, and see if it makes a difference, do a triangle test.

Fred

I don't think you can guarantee him a better beer by using a starter. I use large amounts of yeast as well, but that's mainly because I've built up a stock pile of my favorites.

The instructions say to dump it right in. I'm guessing that Wyeast knows a little something about yeast.

No, I can't and I'm not...I'm encouraging him to try it and make up his mind for himself. Wyeast may know about yeast, but _I_ know about what makes MY beer better. And Wyeast must agree to some extent, since they have a pitching rate/starter calculator here...

http://wyeastlab.com/hb_pitchrate.cfm

giibates - what's the largest OG that you have pitched one vial or smackpack into? OR better yet...the last beer that you brewed can you give me the OG and FG?

Also what attenuation percentages are you seeing in your beers?

What yeasts are you working with too...that would be good to know.

Maybe I am dumb or something but I can't seem to get beers to taste good unless I pitch big....it would be interesting to see how you are able to make such great beers with so little yeast. I am always up to learn from others.

There's a section in BLAM that talks about pitch rates.
From what I gather there, underpitching a bit gives a more pronounced ester profile.
If that's what you want, then do it.

Actually, there are 2 schools of thought on that. Some experts claim that pitching at higher rates promotes more ester production.

Heh, I didn't know I'd be starting up a heated debate on the subject.

I made a 1-qt starter for my Wit using Wyeast 3944 (Belgian Wit) and it's working great. Thanks for all of the input.

The way I look at beer and making it is like so.

there are a lot of important steps in making beer (starters are just one of them), you can cut corners and leave out some steps and still make a good beer but if you cut out enough of those steps, well, your beer prob won't be that good. So that being said, if time permits (and it usually does) I make a starter, if it doesn't I don't. It's one of those steps that you can certainly leave out but start leaving out to many and that brew pub might just be a little better the next time around.

My 2 cents worth

I think making a starter is good insurance, however, if not making one yields good beer for you, then eliminate the step.

Current issues of BYO and Zymurgy both discuss, at length, pitching rates/starters.

Gotta be something to this whole thing eh?

To tag another question on to this thread. I'm using wyeast for the first time.

When I make my starter do I break the inside vial and let it swell first or just pitch the yeast itself into my starter wort?

Doesn't really matter Jim. If I've got a starter ready I'll throw it in, otherwise I'll pop it and make one within a few days. If you just pitch it pop the pack and dump that in too.

For those of you who use a 2L starter, do you use that for 5 gallon batches? I typically use a 1L starter for a 5 gallon batch. I was just curious if I should go out and get a 2L erlenmeyer for my starters.

Yep, I use 2-3L starters for 5 gal. batches.

Yup. Minimum.

If it's a high gravity beer, then 4L starter.

If it's a big beer I use a 5 gal starter, works well.

Fred

"If it's a big beer I use a 5 gal starter, works well."

Fred, that's not a starter, that's a batch of beer.

Maybe that's why I've won awards with my starters.

Fred

I was hoping you'd invite me over, so you could decant the "starter wort" into my mouth.

When you are in the neighborhood just let me know.

Fred

Will do, thanks.

oh you guys!