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Subject: Heineken clone
Author: markheth
May 2nd, 2007
12:08 am
Has anyone got a good AG recipe for a Heineken clone?

Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: DDover
May 2nd, 2007
9:49 pm
Good and Heineken - two words I've never thought to use in the same sentence! Sorry, Mark, can't help you - but at least I'm bumping your post back up to the top. Maybe those just getting off work can help you out!
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: wortboy
May 2nd, 2007
11:24 pm
I always felt that Heineken was aptly named. Sure tastes like heiny to me.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: jarhead271
May 3rd, 2007
12:49 am
I can't really help either, but it seems it would be pretty standard. All pils malt, light hallertau and that white labs northern European yeast...I think it's called copenhagen.

Is that even an all malt beer? I think it is.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: markheth
May 3rd, 2007
3:45 am
I had a feeling this post would get a bit of slack, but thats ok. I often just try different things to see if I can do them. A friend of mine requested a heineken type, and i always like to please... so thought i would give it a try.

Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: Rosace
May 3rd, 2007
3:51 am
I was looking/surfing online for ya Mark.. didn't run into anything credible...
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: Zane
May 3rd, 2007
5:33 am
I think there is one in Clonebrews.

Zane
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: Flip
May 3rd, 2007
9:09 am
I know Herman Holtrop has brewed a Heiniken clone with great success. He is a regular contributor here so he may pipe in. You may want to contact him. This is his web site.

http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/2027/humulus.html

His E-mail address is at the bottom of the page.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: sweetloaf
May 3rd, 2007
2:20 pm
check BYO. they did a feature on "green bottle" beers -- much to my confusion -- a year or two ago. pretty sure heiny was in there.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: DConn
May 3rd, 2007
4:33 pm
Don't diss Heineken til you've tasted it from a can, so it isn't skunked. It can be a damn tasty beer.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: a_vicenzi
May 3rd, 2007
4:44 pm
BYO sez...
This is one involved recipe and I don't want to give you bad info, post back if you can't find it online and I'll post the recipe they have.

The skunk- with my last light lager I put six green bottles outside in the sunlight for 3 minutes and it was there, maybe 4-5 minutes for the levels usually seen in Heine.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: BryansBrew
May 3rd, 2007
6:03 pm
I second Denny's post. Or even better- Heine from the brewery (or close by). I had some on tap around here and it was surprisingly good. I'll skip the green bottles, though.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: jarhead271
May 3rd, 2007
6:19 pm
Ya, on tap is pretty good. But the keg can rocks
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: markheth
May 3rd, 2007
9:15 pm
Agreed on the skunk factor. We had a keg of heineken last weekend, and it was a totally different beer that what comes in the bottles. This is actually what sparked the request by my friend, and I agree... it was pretty tasty.

Thanks for the links and input, I will try to look it up a bit more from those leads.

I know Clone Brews has a copy, but I don't own a copy of that book yet. I was hoping someone on here may have a copy of it they could browse for me.

Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: CaptainLambic
May 3rd, 2007
10:13 pm
I thought Heineken had some adjunct in it..rice? corn?
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: a_vicenzi
May 3rd, 2007
10:42 pm
OK, here we go..
You will want to brew 5 gal and dilute with boiled (deaerated) water to 6 gal at bottling.

OG 1.053 FG 1.007 IBU 25 SRM 5 ABV 6% (5 gal)
OG 1.045 FG 1.006 IBU 21 SRM 4 ABV 5% (6 gal)

8.0 lb 2-row Pilsner
2.4 lb corn grits
5.0 oz Weyermann acidulated
4.0 oz Carapils
0.41 oz Magnum hops- 60 min
0.13 oz Saaz hops- 15 min
WLP 850 or Wyeast 2024 (3qt starter)
2 tsp Irish moss- 15 min
0.25 tsp yeast nutrient- 15 min
2 tsp Polyclar- night before bottling

Cereal Mash-
Mash corn grits and 1 lb Pilsner malt in 5 qts and heat to 158F
Hold for 5 min and bring to boil (stirring constantly)
Boil for 15 min

Main Mash-
Mash rest of malts in 12 qts at 131F and hold for 15 min
Heat to 140F and hold for 15 min
Stir in Cereal mash to hit target of 152F and hold for 45 min
Heat to 170F for 10 min and transfer to lauter tun

The recipre calls for 190F sparge water and using cool water to keep sparge temps around 170, but I wouldn't fool with all that.
Collect 6.5-7 gal wort (stop sparging at SG 1.008 or pH 5.8)
Add a pinch of gypsum and boil 90 min
Ferment at 53F and raise to 60F just before fermentation ends
Lager 4-6 weeks at 30-40F
Bottle and enjoy
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: VoodooBrew
May 3rd, 2007
11:57 pm
> Don't diss Heineken til you've tasted it from a can, so it isn't skunked. It can be a damn tasty beer.

Also can be quite tasty at their "brewery" (that is, museum) in Amsterdam... especially tasty the more of it you "sample"!
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: markheth
May 4th, 2007
1:08 am
Awesome, Thanks Tony.

Does it happen to say anything about the AA content of the hops?
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: markheth
May 4th, 2007
1:21 am
Couple questions about the recipe...

2.4 lb corn grits

Does anyone know if 1lb of corn grits yields the same as flaked corn would (ie. 1.040pppg)?

5.0 oz Weyermann acidulated

What about using a PH reducer and some regular malt instead?
I have been using 1-2tsp of acid blend in my 7.8ph water to reduce it a bit... never actually worked it out what my PH was though.

5 or 6 gallons... is that US gallons or Imperial? (don't know the source of the recipe)


Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: Rosace
May 4th, 2007
1:28 am
Grits are made from Hominy.. thats in the corn family.. I know they are quite strachy. They are starchier than corn per se. and I don't know if you could exactly compare it them equally.. I do know that they will become doughly and goobly like if not boiled, they could potentially clog your tun resulting in a stuck run off.. possibly
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: a_vicenzi
May 4th, 2007
2:05 am
Mark,
The AA% they have listed are 16% Magnum and ??% Saaz, just use the TB calculator to adjust the IBU's once you get your hops.

I have no idea about the corn grits conversion.

The acidulated malt, if I'm mot mistaken, has had lactic acid producing bacteria work on it and this will give the beer a certain twang or sourness. The pH has nothing to do with it, as far as I know.

The recipe came from BYO and everything is in standard measures, so US gallons I would assume.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: lambic
May 4th, 2007
11:43 am
Figure, i might as wel put a reaction down here.

Thank god, we get our Heineken in brown bottles over here. Then again, it's still not my favourite pilsner (in bars from the keg it's pretty ok).

This recipe gave me a gold medal & overal champion in 1998 of the Open Dutch (Brewing) Championship (ONK=Open Nederlands Kampioenschap). Personally, i wasn't too happy with the result, as it tasted just like Heineken.

I brewed the following recipe:
for 25 liter of beer
4250 gram pilsnermalt
200 grams maizena (maizestarch, the stuff to make sauces bind)
92 gram Saaz 4% (82gr boils for 75minuten, the rest for 10 minutes)

I used a 2 step decoction mash (yeah Denny, i know). You might as well do a infusion mash.

Temp (?C) 51 65 72 75
Time (min) 95 95 7 15

IBU 34, OG 1.047, FG 1.013

Score 92/100.

The key to brewing a good clone is in the yeast. Fortunately, i got me some of the original yeast. It's pretty much determinable.

Good luck!

BTW i'm not claiming it to be a clone-recipe, just came out that way. I don't even know if Heineken uses (only) Saazer hops?
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: jarhead271
May 4th, 2007
3:12 pm
What does the (yeah Denny, I know) refer to? I'm thinking of doing a decoction in the near future and would like as much info as possible.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: sweetloaf
May 4th, 2007
3:53 pm
jared, its effectiveness (or rather, differentiation from infusion) is in question. i've not personally done it, just repeating what i've read here.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: jarhead271
May 4th, 2007
3:56 pm
So the point was a 2 step decoction is not worth the time when compared to a single infusion?
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: sweetloaf
May 4th, 2007
3:57 pm
"The acidulated malt, if I'm mot mistaken, has had lactic acid producing bacteria work on it and this will give the beer a certain twang or sourness. The pH has nothing to do with it, as far as I know."

actually, i think pH is exactly why the acidulated malt is in there. in the absence of dark-roasted grains, it will help bring the mash in range. alternately, you could do an acid rest, but this is easier. that's my interpretation. i also assume they intend for you to use soft water.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: sweetloaf
May 4th, 2007
4:00 pm
got two threads going here now, but...
jared, i think the point was decoction itself (purported to increase maltiness) is unnecessary, but the steps themselves may still be. you could achieve this with step infusion.
but again, i've not personally compared them. i'll leave it to those who have to comment...
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: jarhead271
May 4th, 2007
4:11 pm
Ya I have heard the acid malt is for Ph as well. Same reason you would add acids to your mash/sparge water.

See, I'm torn on the whole maltiness/decoc issue. Mostly because I don't have as much knowledge as I would like about German brews, or about decoction mashing. One thing I know: the most amazing malty and caramelly flavors and aromas come from German lagers. Munich, bock, O-fest--the ones from Germany (and some American) put me in a trance of malty bliss. I know nearly all of them still decoc, and many American breweries decoc some lagers as well. I think Sam Adams and Victory are a couple. The point I'm making is that those beers have something extra, something special, that I have never even hinted at in my beers. I always thought it was the decoction mashing that added this special malty character, but some say adding a pound of two of Munich malt is an equivelant alternative. That does not seem to be true in my experience.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: DConn
May 4th, 2007
4:15 pm
Jared, in an experiment I did, over half the tasters in a blind tasting could not pick out and did not prefer the decocted beers. 4 brewers brewed 5 different beers, each in a decoction and infusion version using identical recipes.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: DavidS
May 4th, 2007
4:19 pm
Don't believe it. I've heard that Denny won't eat his oatmeal unless it goes through a decoction.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: jarhead271
May 4th, 2007
4:20 pm
lol

Interesting. I would love to participate in a tasting like that. How do they do it then? German beers have always made me jealous. I thought I was on to the reason, but maybe I'm back at sqare one.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: BryansBrew
May 4th, 2007
5:34 pm
Like everything in brewing, Jared, try it for yourself and see what YOU think.

I decoct my oktoberfest and doppelbocks (also did with a PU clone). I've also tried without decocting them and didn't care for them. Could I be mistaken or biased? absolutely, but, hey- it's my choice and preference. I find you need a little more bittering hoppage to balance the maltiness decoction supposedly adds to the brew. I can easily see how some people would not care for the "sweetness" over a less malty version of the same recipe. Give it a whirl- you may love it, hate it, or not tell any difference.

Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: jarhead271
May 4th, 2007
5:38 pm
I'm sure I will still try it; though I'm not really looking forward to it . But if it gives me the malty caramelly flavors I seem to think of as coming from a decoction, then it will be worth it to me.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: BryansBrew
May 4th, 2007
5:42 pm
I haven't found it that difficult. I mash in as normal and mix it up, then I pull 1/3 of the mash (thick- not much water) into a pot and then boil it. You gotta keep stirring the bottom so it doesn't scorch. Around the time the mash is ready, so is the decoction and I just dump it back into the mash tun which brings me to the next rest or mashout- and done. Simple. I'm too lazy to do anything difficult, and I enjoy decocting, so that should say something
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: jarhead271
May 4th, 2007
5:46 pm
Do you ever do the intermediate steps for the decoction part?? I've looked at the decoction schedule laid out in books from Noonan and Mosher, and they have the decoced part going through rests before the boil happens.

How long do your decoction mashes take? Those same schedules I mention above usually list between 6-8 hours just for the mash.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: BryansBrew
May 4th, 2007
6:03 pm
yeah, ignore that stuff. I've read those books, too.

You're supposed to stop for a sacc rest, but since I usually do single decoctions, I start the whole mash at a sacc rest temp already. I raise the temp of the decoction to boiling and then start a 20 minute countdown.

So, the whole mashing and decoction takes 60 minutes- just like any other brew. You're dealing with highly modified malts, so you don't need all those steps like they might have back in the olden days.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: a_vicenzi
May 4th, 2007
7:11 pm
I think Greg R was correct..."I do know that they will become doughly and goobly like if not boiled, they could potentially clog your tun resulting in a stuck run off.. possibly " and that is the main reason for boiling the cereal mash.

Check out this site about decoction mashing, they explain it pretty well-
www.strandbrewers.org and click on Technical Infomation.

And from Weyermann's website- (guess I learned something new.)
"Weyermann Acidulated Malt is perfect to adjust the pH level in mash or wort. There is a simple formula to calculate the dosage of Acidulated Malt: You have to use 1% of Acidulated malt to reduce the pH by 0.1. (Example: 3% Acidulated malt reduce the pH leve in mash by 0.3).

The exact effect depends of course on the special conditions in the mash or wort (buffering capacity ?) and on the composition of the brew water.

Weyermann Acidulated Malt is produced by using lactic acid, which is generated by on grain natural occurring lactic bacteria. Therefore Acidulated Malt is also a wonderful possibility to produce beer styles with a typical ?sourish? character like ?Berliner Weisse?.
To reach the ?sourish? character 8% of Acidulated malt are a perfect rate."
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: jarhead271
May 4th, 2007
9:21 pm
Good info Tony, thanks.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: lambic
May 5th, 2007
8:49 pm
Funny, my remark was meant to skip the decoction vs infusiondebate. Where did i go wrong?
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: DConn
May 6th, 2007
5:06 pm
For some reason, people think I'm "anti-decoction" or that I'm trying to discourage people from doing them. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm merely presenting data that I've gathered that I hope will help people make informed decisions.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: lambic
May 6th, 2007
8:17 pm
I still perform a decoction mash from time to time. However, only when i feel like doing one. However, when i want my pilsner to come out very light in color, i perform an infusion mash. Simply because of less Maillard reaction (coloring the wort).
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: a_vicenzi
May 23rd, 2007
7:06 am
I was going through some old posts and ran across this one-
I have to say that for homebrewers who will introduce things like Lactobacillus and Brettanomyces into ferments or push more hops into a brew than allowed by physics- you guys sure do complain a lot about a little Heine skunk.
-Just a random observation.

Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: radtek
May 23rd, 2007
7:48 am
I've had Heineken that was as sweet as Grolsch and it was very good. However, that skunky floral character that everyone seems to despise- well for some reason this is what makes Heineken so good to me. Also as far as I am aware Heineken is the overall #1 selling beer worldwide... which irks August Busch to no end from what I hear. Just my two Cents.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: jmo
May 23rd, 2007
2:24 pm
The vast majority of us probably haven't tasted anything BUT skunky Heinie - so that's what we all think it tastes like. I am also an occasional fan of that skunkiness, but I'd be afraid to try to impart it in my beer on purpose.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: a_vicenzi
May 23rd, 2007
6:32 pm
jmo,
I've had Heine both ways and its good both ways. I do prefer it with the skunk, though.

Don't be afraid of trying it yourself, next time you brew and bottle a light lager put six into green bottles, after carbonation put them outside in direct sunlight for 3 minutes- at the worst you'll have six beers that are less than stellar.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: brewkid
Jul 2nd, 2009
5:04 am
I went to the Heineken Museum in Amsterdam when i was twelve. According to the museum, there is also wheat in the mash.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: Beerbrewing
Jul 18th, 2010
6:17 pm
Good recipe with directions on this site
http://www.beerbrewing.org/heineken-clone/
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: brewballs
Jul 18th, 2010
6:41 pm
It's very important to use 2/4 of a cup of sugar when bottling.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: uisgue
Jul 18th, 2010
6:42 pm
I prefer 3/6 cup.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: brewballs
Jul 18th, 2010
6:46 pm
I actually prefer 32/64 of a cup, because I'm such a precise guy.
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: Rosace
Jul 18th, 2010
11:33 pm
"http://www.beerbrewing.org/heineken-clone/"

8 oz of casade @ 50 minutes ????

Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: Ohiobrewman
Jul 19th, 2010
12:15 am
Sounds like one of Richards threads...

Don't forget the 25% Roasted Barley
Subject: Re: Heineken clone
Author: DaleHair
Jul 19th, 2010
2:17 am
thought it was 17% roasted barley, just don't crush it.

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